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[Jenifer]

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In the past, we have had several debates about the existence of God, or a creator. 

I thought I'd began to break down some of the philosophical proofs of God's existence. 

The first theory I'd like to take into consideration is Paley's Watchmaker Analogy.

Basically what Paley is saying is that the intelligent design of the universe is proof that it has a designer.  Or to put it more simply, creation is evidence of a creator. 

For example, we may see a painting and know that someone had to paint it.  It couldn't just have appeared on its own in completion, as an actual picture.

Darwin countered this theory with the theory of natural selection, but I don't think it even needs to be that complicated.

As I see it, there can be no creator justification for the existence of the universe because by that theory, the creator of the universe is evidence of its own creator.

And if the creator had a creator, that creator had a creator and so on and so on, because it would follow that an creator who created a universe with intelligent design would have to be assumed to be an intelligent design his or herself.  So the creator of the universe would have had to been created by a creator capable of intelligent design.

Either way, we always land in the same place.  Who created the creator? 

[Sana]

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I am not sure if this would be relevant here, but I was reading someone's blog a while ago and came upon this: (http://teresasilverthorn.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/somebody-needs-to-say-this-2/)

Some food for thought.

[Tobacco]

crybaby me a>
blub's crybaby me e crybaby me ng bla crybaby me ?

[Father Luke]

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I haven't found any. But then I wasn't looking, so. . .

[Jenifer]

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If you are going to use the nothing really exists argument in this debate, at least define it and present it.  You're just being lazy.  Sure as I'm typing away on this laptop sitting on my lap and Jack is driving the mario kart remote controlled car across the top of it.  You muthafuckas is lazy.

Right Jack Jack?

Jack says yes.

[Tobacco]

crybaby me a>
I blub blah crybaby me  quack, I blah blub's no crybaby me e blah is blub bla blah crybaby me . To quack is bla to crybaby me , it is to crybaby me t blah blub blah crybaby me .

blah's a blub crybaby me ct, bla an crybaby me t bla. crybaby me r we blah, we blah it crybaby me gently, bla we blub blah blub of crybaby me  to bla crybaby me e quack. blah crybaby me -bla crybaby me t bla blub to bla blub-crybaby me e crybaby me sts blub in bla bla blah quack. blah of it crybaby me  to me, I blah as blah blah bla bla't crybaby me g blub blah bla crybaby me ead of a crybaby me  blah of crybaby me s.

[Jenifer]

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Sure though.  If there is a creator, who created everything, they sure as hell aren't responsible for organized religion.  That is entirely man made. 

However, you'll have to directly reply to the watchmaker theory.  What have you said that refutes that?

[Tobacco]

crybaby me a>
To quack it,

crybaby me n bla't bla blah blub as blah is, bla blah is blub't blah to crybaby me  be crybaby me  by a crybaby me .

blub crybaby me blabba blub 0, crybaby me  blub 1.

[Father Luke]

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Who created the creator? 

http://www.carm.org/secular-movements/atheism/if-everything-needs-creator-then-who-or-what-created-god

From the article:

"The question is better phrased as a statement: "Everything that has come into
existence was brought into existence by something else."


And:

"By definition, the Christian God never came into existence; that is, He is the
uncaused cause (Psalm 90:2).


So, you would have to go outside of your question to ask it, Jenifer. More like this:


What the fuck?


Hope that helps.

- -
Okay,
Father Luke

[Jenifer]

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"By definition, the Christian God never came into existence; that is, He is the
uncaused cause (Psalm 90:2).

I would need to ask that person to define 'uncaused cause'. 

That is also from the Bible.  I certainly think man created religion. 

[Father Luke]

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What I mean is that, you have defined your terms, i.e. "Gawd":

In the past, we have had several debates about the existence of God, or a creator.

 ... so now you need to play by the rules. Your rules state God by definition, the Christian God because other Religions call God something else:
 
never came into existence, being the uncaused cause (Psalm 90:2)

Your question,

Who created the creator?

 is like saying God is. Why is God.

God is because you say God is. Otherwise God would be called something else.
And in other religions, there are alternate explanations for why everything
came into being.

Your flaw is that you are asking Western Christianity to be explained outside of
the context of Western Religion, i.e. : Christianity, using eastern Mysticism, or
Scientific proof. It won't work. It's like asking why one nation won't use another
nation's money for day to day expenses.

And yes. Religion is entirely the invention of people. Every religion.
That is kind of a definition of religions.


So. If you want to know how it all began, and what was before that, you have to
broaden your question, Jenifer.

[Tobacco]

crybaby me a>
Or crybaby me  bla crybaby me ns blah bla crybaby me g. blah's quack.

bla we're blub blah an blah we crybaby me te crybaby me ing to blah we bla't bla crybaby me and crybaby me ng. bla, I blah blah've crybaby me d blah blub blah blub crybaby me city quack bla blub blub--bla blub it blah quack.

crybaby me  blah crybaby me aft blub bla quack blah crybaby me tive.

[Father Luke]

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Or release all religions from the thinking. That's better.

Your question then becomes an answer.

Now we're stuck with an idea we attribute everything to when we don't yet understand something.

Not exactly. Since there is no question, you just decide upon alternatives.

Why, I hear they've invented this thing that sends electricity across the whole world--and turns it into speech.

Calling that witchcraft would put things into perspective.

How?

[Tobacco]

crybaby me a>
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[Father Luke]

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Why, I hear they've invented this thing that sends electricity across the whole world--and turns it into speech.

Calling that witchcraft would put things into perspective.

What?

The original question was:

Who created the creator?

How does:

Calling that witchcraft ... put things into perspective.